| Lexicon Senior Healthcare |
| It is an MLM scam of some sort, they just need more new recruits coming in to that keep paying the $599 startup fee and $20 per lead |
| 16th of Jul, 2011 by got scammed |
NOTE: RJR Insurance Services, Inc, formerly known as National Underwrtiers Group, is the one behind SHC (Senior Healthcare Consultants) and LSH (Lexicon Senior Healthcare). The owner and President/CEO is Richard P Dale, JR.
http://www.lexiconseniorhealthcare.com/
http://shcmarketing.com/
The two links are the SAME company. Both are scams. Don't be fooled like I was.
Over the course of the past week I have discovered and realized a few things about the company. I have also verified these things with other who were in my training class by corresponding with them via email and phone, although they told us in class not to exchange info with each other, which I found to be suspicious, but I did so anyway.
What I have discovered is that the so called preset, triple verified leads are absolute garbage. I have been sent out to extremely rural, economically depressed areas, driving at least an hour each way, and sometimes 2 or 3 hours, where I have to get a hotel room, and it is next to impossible to make the sale since they already have supplemental coverage that they can barely afford as it is, and you are trying to get them coverage that is better, but double what they pay or more.
The only way you are going to make the sale is if you hustle them, and I believe that is why they send you to such areas. The people are poor, uneducated and we are expected to pressure them into signing by using scare tactics and a convoluted sense of urgency since they "qualify today" health wise and they are seniors.
I have now come to realize that the presentation manual they provide us with and teach us is just plain wrong, not to mention unethical and immoral. The basically set up the appointment, i.e., "preset appointment", by using a call center, i.e., telemarketer, and never tell the senior that we are selling anything. They simply tell them that a healthcare consultant will be in their area tomorrow (by the way you don't get your appointments until the night before, so you never know where you are going or even what county out of your initial 3 you will be in on which day), and then ask them if they are aware of the Healthcare Reform happening known as Obamacare. Of course the senior says yes, and then they ask if it would be ok for the consultant to drop by and explain the changes for them. Again they say ok. They then set the time, then tell them to hold on the line and their "manager" will verify the appointment. They ask them a couple of questions that would disqualify them, such as insulin use or oxygen use, etc. If they say yes to any of those they then say, "Ok, thanks for your time. Have a good afternoon", and then they hang up. If they answer no to all the questions they tell them the consultant will be there at such and such time and hang up. Keep in mind, the senior expressed no interest whatsoever in buying any product, nor did they even get told you would be offering any products. They don't leave a number, they don't call back to confirm the appointment, and we are told we are not allowed to ever call the client for any reason, not even if we are running late. We are fined if we do so. This is because they will cancel the appointment if anyone called them to confirm. I cannot tell you how many times I have been instructed to get off their property, that they didn't make an appointment, they don't care or want to talk to me, AND we are charged $20 for EVERY single appointment regardless of if you make a sale, or if you even talk to them, or if they are even home. This is not a preset, verified appointment! It is a trick to get you in their door...a hustle!
IF, and that's a big IF, you get into the home you make small talk with them for a while, get on their good side, then go into your "presentation", i.e., HUSTLE. You begin explaining the changes in Medicare, which are true, but exaggerated, and then begin to show them examples of other companies being sued and fined for patterns of delayed payments, market misconduct, etc. You are making them fearful and can see it in their eyes!
By the way you know which insurance carrier they have ahead of time usually, so you save their carrier for last then show them examples of their company being fined and sued, as well as cancelling policies, etc. Again, making them fearful!!
4 scare tactics used:
1. Coverage - Make them think they have poor coverage, show them they don't have full coverage. (Sometimes true, but nevertheless....making them scared!)
2. Company - Make them believe their company is not a good company to be with by using examples (articles, reports, letters, etc.) that show their other companies being fined and sued for things, then show their company last.
3. Conditionally Renewable - Get them to see that they have a group policy, and show them using random examples that there are not truly guaranteed renewable in a group policy since the entire group can be cancelled.
4. Planning for Life - Show them that are not planning for life due to the above reasons and tie that in with trying to sell them a crappy "Senior Healthcare Partners" discount program for "benefits and services not covered by Medicare or Medigap policies".
We are then expected to close the sale and have them sign without ever mentioning price to them, or even discussing what they can or cannot afford. We are instructed to qualify them and then if they do qualify to GET EXCITED! Jump and down, clap your hands, slap the table, etc, then go into the close... "Ok Mrs. Jones, I am going to take care of everything for you...etc, etc, etc. NOW GIVE ME YOUR MEDICARE CARD!" Then we are told to put our heads down and start writing the policy...don';t say a word. If they give an objection, we acknowledge it agree with it, the FORGET ABOUT IT!. Go back into showing them a summary...where they are, where they want to be, and tell them again how your going to take care of everything, then start filling out app again. AND, we are told to do this as many times as it takes, that only the top 20% of salespeople can do this until they get the sale, that it take at least 5 repetitions to to make 80% of all sales....BUT, they don;t even know how much it will cost!!!! This is called HIGH PRESSURE SELLING, but the whole time in training, they kept repeating over and over again, "This is not high pressure selling! If you feel like you are pressuring them, then you are doing it wrong!" Not quite...They live off of social security...period. They are poor. They lives in shacks and trailers, or at best a tiny little home.
For me, this is just not right. I was not raised that way. I have a high level of integrity as well as a good sense of morals and values. If someone did this or even attempted to do this to anyone of my grandparents when they were still alive I would have hunted them down until I found them and then strangle the crap out of them! They teach you to be a sleazeball, conniving, deceitful used car salesman, and all the while somehow convince you that is not what they are doing. They use the "group mentality" against you once you are in training, and over the phone they sell, sell, sell you on the job. Also, I saw with my own eyes in Dallas the "recruiting department", which I know realize is a bunch of 20 somethings getting paid chump change to just get people hooked on a lie. I don't even think they are aware of what they are doing though as I spoke to two of them and they are not the brightest people. They just read a script, just like the "call center".
I do not work that way and I will not work that way. They got over on me for a while because they are very good at selling....at selling you on the job! Any reputable company that has a good name and offers a good, legitimate opportunity does not need to sell you on working there. You want to work their because they have a good reputation, a good name, and offer a good opportunity.
Don't just take my word for it though...do the research yourself.
Here is a link to get you started:
http://www.scaminformer.com/scam-report/lexicon-senior-healthcare-employment-scam-dallas-texas-c13259.html
PS - I saw such things about them prior to paying the $599 fee, paying to get myself to Dallas, food and lodging , etc, etc., but as I said before they are really good at getting you to bypass your gut feeling, your intuition and your better judgment by SELLING YOU on the job. I am not telling you not to do it, that is up for you to decide, but I am telling you that my advice is don't waste your time and money.
PSS - One more suspicious thing I thought I should mention....absolutely nothing in their office has a logo on it, there is no signage, the door says "sales marketing group", their training material has no company name or logos on it. You can't find a logo anywhere on anything, not even your presentation manual. It seems like they are hiding in plain sight.
They seem to be a version of MLM scam tied into insurance, and a very sophisticated one at that, but I am no idiot. I graduated college with a 3.8 GPA, and have an IQ of over 140+.....and they got me!
I hope this helps as I don't want to see anyone else get duped as I did...
And now for the nitty gritty, digging down deep info they don't tell you till you are all the way in deep:
1. Are we charged for every single lead and callback set for us?
YES...$20 a pop for presets, no matter sale or not, and regardless of seeing client, and $5 a pop for callbacks
2. How are these charges paid? (MOST important question!)
Drafted from your account you set up for direct deposit...meaning they take it from you like it or not, sales or no sales.
At 3 to 4 appts per day or 12 to 16 appts per week that is $240 to $320 a week in presets, plus about $50 for call backs they set for you, so say an even $300 per week, $1200 per month, $14,400 per year just to pay for appts!!
I have already put 1000 miles on my car in 4 days of appts, spent about $200 in gas, so thats $800 a month in gas, or $9,600 a year.
Not to mention food and lodging since you travel hours from home you need a hotel room at least 3 nights per week, so at another $300 or so for week (conservatively) is $1,200 per month or $14,400 per year....soooo basically it cost you, the agent, over $38,000 a year just to do the job!!!!
Almost $40,000 a year just to work there!!!!!
Even if you make $100,000 for the year, you are actually only making $60,000 and for me that IS NOT worth all the bullshit they put you through.
AND. that $60,000 is before paying for your 1099 taxes at 12.4% (6.2% x 2) of your net Schedule C income for Social Security tax and 2.9% (1.45% x 2) for Medicare tax. These taxes will be computed on Schedule SE. All of this in addition to paying federal and state income tax. On $100,000 per year your federal tax rate will be 28%, plus your state tax on average of about 5%, for a total tax of about 33%.
33% of $100,000 = $33,000 which leaves $67,000 minus $40,000 =
$37,000 per year you take home!!!
And they hold 30% of your commissions in escrow account, to be used for all the cancellations you are going to get after pressuring economically depressed seniors in very rural areas to sign for a policy you didn't give them a price for!
See here also:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/insurance-companies/senior-healthcare-co/senior-healthcare-consultants-23x72.htm
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=32532310
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/rjr-insurance-services-inc-and-subsidiary-companies-announce-election-of-officers--distribution-managers-55240402.html
http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1776445/senior_healthcare_consultants_and_rjr_insurance_services_inc_announce_4th/index.html
http://www.ourtown.com/snellvillega/article/2009/11/8/senior-healthcare-consultants-and-subsidiary-companies-announces-election-of-off.html
http://www.insuranceblogs.biz/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=12&id=39&limit=10&limitstart=20&Itemid=42
http://www.insurance-forums.net/forum/general-insurance-agent-discussions/does-anyone-know-about-lsh-t28155.html
IF IT LOOKS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE... |
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| Thank you so much for this. Everything you say is true. I to was fooled by them. The only difference is that I went out l day only and it was awful. Abandonded places, etc... I hope others see this. I wish I had before I spent all my money flying out there and hotels and then the 599. Friends of my class have had the same experiences. |
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| Wow, I was suppose to have a web based interview with this so call company tomrow when I stumbled on this reprot. Thank you so very much. I did check some of the web sites you posted and it has changed my mind. I will not be having the interview tomorrow. How can I thank you? In my gut I felf like something was wrong. They got my resume off careerbuilder web site. |
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| They too "found" me on Career Builder...but if I think back to the so called web interview and phone interview, and person to person...wait, THERE WAS NO PERSON TO PERSON INTERVIEW!!! They obviously just turn and burn their new recruits, BUT make you believe you are SPECIAL and it was TOUGH to get hired...NOT!! |
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http://westfallonline.com/
http://www.speakermatch.com/profile/westfallonline/
Here is "Ryan" from the webinar - his real name is Chris Westfall. If you don't think you are being sold - think again. Check out the links above where he advertises his services. Any company that sets up informational meetings and interviews where you can't ask any questions is very suspicious. If it was the real deal they would have a LIVE video confrence with a top sales manager to talk about the position and then give you a chance to ask questions. I asked the recruiter a few questions which she ignored & now I know why. I can see paying to get a license, but not a bunch of $$$$ up front to a company to employ you. DO NOT FALL FOR THIS!!! There are plenty of companies that take people without sales experience & train them properly - all without having to pay ANY money upfront. |
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| Not sure what happened for you all, but this opportunity is definitely a fit for the right people, not looking to be "employed" but more focused on serious success in an environment that lays it all out there for you up front and continues the assistance whenever needed. This company holds up its end of the bargain and then some. No, you can't just drive around and pick up checks from everyone you see, but if you work the system you can be successful and feel very good about what you are doing for a living. |
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| I agree with Right on - I ran across this site, and a couple others, and frankly can't believe what I am reading because my personal experience was so different. They told me everything up front and have done everything they said they would do. They just wanted to know I would give it a true effort. When you look at the costs they are paying for me I completely understand why. For those willing to do this, this is the best thing you will find out there - look at it for yourself, objectively, and decide for yourself, not based on partial truths and flat out falsehoods. |
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LEXICON SENIOR HEALTHCARE IS THE REAL DEAL!!!
All these negative gross libelous posts about Lexicon make me nothing less than laugh at the, well... nothing less than made up s''t. Frankly, I am amazed at some of the imagination! I am impressed. lol
Look, I have worked for Lexicon Senior Healthcare for months, almost since they started, and LEXICON SENIOR HEALTHCARE is the best thing that has ever happened to me not to mention countless I know on staff here across the nation. I have been in sales for over 15 years. I have the blessing with Lexicon to literally wake up in the morning, type in a passcode on my laptop and have my entire day already made for me with PRESET APPOINTMENTS! Now, they are not Pre-Sold appointments, but they are for real and I did not have to do anything to get them. Ever had to bang the phone for half the week to get in front of someone?? Ever had to cold-call??? I do not with LSH!!!
I work 4 days a week and enjoy a 3-day weekend. I am making more money than I ever imagined possible (course the husband loves to spend it! lol), and I adore the management staff and my co-consultants.
Last month I made $17, 291.12 (including expense pay). I have preset appointments, continual training, all products I want, maximum support, a growing market (babyboomers), and the very best of best products.
BTW, just yesterday I made over $4000 in commission on just 1 Lexicon preset appointment. My renewals in just 5 months on staff are paying my mortgage. I love Lexicon!!! A dream reality for the right person.
We are growing fast and some day you might wish you got in at the ground floor like me (if you get a position).
-Marilyn |
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| Wow, heck of a day there, Marilyn! Keep it up! |
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Marilyn
I expect that was all made up, I have yet to meet anybody from Lexicon or SHC that makes a good living as a salesperson. On the other hand the vice presidents and CEO are making a fortune both from the salesman and from the commision overides of the policies sold.
I ran across this article about a Richard P Dale, Jr of Texas which also happens to be the name of the SHC CEO
Richard P. Dale, Jr., Dallas, TX
Order #E11-52, July 18, 2011; Respondent failed to disclose within 30 days of actions taken against him by the Texas and Kentucky Departments of Insurance and incorrectly indicating on his license renewal application that he had not been involved in any administrative proceeding regarding a professional or occupational license. Sanction: $250 fine.
I could go through a long list of reasons why to avoid these organisations, but I will not. However I will give you this best piece of advice when dealing with these two companies, RUN RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND DO NOT LOOK BACK. Heed this advice and you will thank me one day. |
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Do yourself a favor and check things out for yourself.
This has been nothing less than a greatly needed shot in the arm for me and my family and all I can tell you is that I have never had the support and training that I get here, I have never had more time to sell as so much of the day to day business aspects are handled for me, and I have never helped so many people who really need it.
My income is growing steadily and it is all due to this system. There is not a single thing that I was not told about up front and they have never said a single thing that would happen that did not.
All I can do is give my experience and hope that people are smart enough to make up their own minds. |
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Agreed MB. Like I said before, Lexicon is undoubtedly a fit for the right person. That being said, it is not the right fit for others, so like you said MB, make up your own mind. If you have the right mindset going into an opportunity such as this one you can be very successful. If not you may end up walking away after a week (or a day for that matter) and shift your focus on a different type of career path. The long term success with Lexicon is very bright though. Expansion into different markets, a growing primary market and as much support as you could ask for make the future looking prospects for this company very exciting! Also, the commission structure is great long term.
You just have to decide for yourself whether the opportunity is for you. |
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I found the below press release on Lexicon today. They ARE actually major distribution partners with Great American and AFG. And ground floor! That's it, I'm convinced b/t this and their A+ rating with the BBB that there is NO WAY these guys are a scam. Check it out for yourself... I found it on Yahoo Finance. I'm going to see if I can get an interview for a position with them, sick of waiting in doubt. Sorry for some of the posts I made last month when I thought they were not for real. My bad.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Lexicon-Senior-Healthcare-LSH-prnews-255646120.html;_ylt=AhdmCKT1dlhxlgiHKEU3y5Oscq9_;_ylu=X3oDMTFkYWxvMzMyBHBvcwM3BHNlYwNuZXdzSHViQXJ0aWNsZUxpc3QEc2xrA2xleGljb25zZW5pbw--?x=0 |
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Lexicon Senior Healthcare (LSH) Announces Nationwide Plan to Market Loyal American Affordable Health Benefits Policy - JUST GOOGLE THIS TITLE if you can't pull up the link below or copy-paste it.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Lexicon-Senior-Healthcare-LSH-prnews-255646120.html;_ylt=AhdmCKT1dlhxlgiHKEU3y5Oscq9_;_ylu=X3oDMTFkYWxvMzMyBHBvcwM3BHNlYwNuZXdzSHViQXJ0aWNsZUxpc3QEc2xrA2xleGljb25zZW5pbw--?x=0 |
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I found the below press release on Lexicon today. They ARE actually major distribution partners with Great American and AFG. And ground floor! That's it, I'm convinced b/t this and their A+ rating with the BBB that there is NO WAY these guys are a scam. Check it out for yourself... I found it on Yahoo Finance. I'm going to see if I can get an interview for a position with them, sick of waiting in doubt. Sorry for some of the posts I made last month when I thought they were not for real. My bad.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Lexicon-Senior-Healthcare-LSH-prnews-255646120.html;_ylt=AhdmCKT1dlhxlgiHKEU3y5Oscq9_;_ylu=X3oDMTFkYWxvMzMyBHBvcwM3BHNlYwNuZXdzSHViQXJ0aWNsZUxpc3QEc2xrA2xleGljb25zZW5pbw--?x=0 |
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I can proove "Marilyn" is a figment in David Croom's imagination. Every Lexicon management and H.R. departments always tell you about their faith and commitment to thier faith. Notice when "marilyn" says she "has the blessing of waking up in the morning..." they write the way they speak; "ever have to cold call??? Not with LHS!!"
Croom's work book, presentation book, and binder is written in the same text/almost language as the reply to this blog. Phoney dude, Croom is. |
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| I have not been on here in sometime. All I can say is that I am having a blast and I do not regret my decision for one second. There has not been a single thing that was not disclosed verbally and in writing. Granted it takes someone willing to read the material and ask the questions but there was never been an attempt to deceive or in any way manipulate this opportunity. For those willing to look and listen, check it out for yourself and make up your own mind. There is so much here that has just not been the case with me. |
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| Seems fairly obvious that LSH is a legitimate company for which some individuals find much success while others do not. Sounds pretty similar to any 100% commission position out there. There really isn't much else to say, but if you're going to attempt a career in a highly competitive straight commission sales environment, make sure you are giving it all your effort or you will likely end up disappointed. |
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Any rational person with 1/2 a brain understands that reputable insurance companies don't ask their 1099 sales reps to pay $600 to reserve a territory, pay for airfare/hotel/training and pay for leads. As a very experienced outside salesman, Lexicon is full of red flags.
I've mentioned this on other forums...I personally believe they have an effective marketing department that spends their time writing positive comments under the disguise of successful sales reps. I don't believe a single positive comment based on my personal research.
Before you invest your hard-earned money with Lexicon, thoroughly research them. Don't rely on information they supply and forums like below that are almost comical. I hate seeing people misled & ripped off!
http://www.insuranceblogs.biz/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=19&id=165&Itemid=42 |
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hey guys! So do you keep making this Richard Page Dale, Jr dude, CEO and the owner of this scam company SHC, or Lexicon or Buffet SH??
Im sure he likes it! Check out how much money he REALLY make from his scam company if he can buy this penthause for almost 2 MILLIONS bucks at age 27 yo! He is 34 yo now!
Check hi info out:
Owner Richard P Dale Jr
Assessed Value: $1, 788, 610
City: Dallas-Uptown Zip: 75219
County: Dallas County TX Region: North Dallas
Neighborhood: Uptown
Subdivision: — Condo
Development: Plaza at Turtle Creek
Street: Hood Street
775 is an Excellent credit score, what's yours? Yr.
Built: 2000 Builder: — Sqft (land | living): 136474 land | 3931
living Bedrooms: 3
Bathrooms: 4.5
Property Taxes: $39, 593.32 (2009)
Stories: 2
Resale
04/10/2006
B: Richard P Dale Jr
BA: N/A
Just Google his address and you will find this info : 2828 Hood Street, Unit: 1704, Dallas-Uptown, TX 75219
Nice place to live actually! Its at the Mansion hotel!
by the way, I used to work for him and know him in person- he is mentally sick and has tons of personal issues! The dude is simple crazy or mentally sick. This is just scary! and he can lie so well- you never figure out he is actually giving you BS!!
I do have his personal cell phone number - anyone can order a report for 0.99 cents for this number to make sure this number belongs to him. So, if you guys cant get your money bacl from his managers I would go ahead and TEXT or call this lier directly!
here are the digits:
214- 794- 3450
Agaian- this is his personal cell phone! But be avare - he can respond with different name, like its Konstantin, or Mark or just Marketing Department. But it will be HIM in person! and you can tell or text him what you think about his stinky business! Until he changes his number as he changes his company names non-stop! I just want you guys to know WHO is behind all this scam and what a sick person this Richard Dale is! |
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